When next update?

[AlanT]

Hi Dean,

I'm sure you're tired of hearing this, but over the years you've periodically announced that you're working "full steam" on LM and that we should expect dramatic improvements "real soon now".

I think you've done a great job with LM as it is now, but I will admit that there are some things that I feel could be improved and new features that should be added.

While LM has been basically standing still, other autoresponders have been moving forward.  It's to the point now where I feel that purchasing a competing product may be worthwhile just to get some of the features I've expected to be available "soon".

I respect your skills, and I understand that you have other projects to work on to help pay the bills.  I'm not denigrating you for your lack of focus on LM, although I have grown a bit disappointed by the unfulfilled promises.

Bottom line - can you commit to a release date for the next version with all the bells and whistles you've promised us over the years?

Personally, I feel that what I need the most is the ability for a subscriber to update their email address and update their "profile".  

I have several friends that I had to refer elsewhere because they needed a WYSIWYG HTML editor, which is included in PHPList, but not LM.  

RSS feeds have been around for a while, and many other products make them available.

These are the items I feel should be first priority, even if you don't have time to completely rewrite LM as you'd like.

[hilco]

I second that.. can you reply Dean?

[DW]

I am working on the update and I hope to include a WYSIWYG editor.

Regards

[lajre]

DW, maybe a small upgrade fee from us would be more incentive for more updates/features?

[bhl007]

waiting for Dean's good news!

[zedbiz]

Hi Dean,

I am a loyal user for a few years now - and have been happy with the functionality, but always looking for more.

Have been waiting anxiously for new developments in ListMailPro.  It is solid code, but does lack some of the features of other mailing scripts available.

So I too would like to know when to expect the new version.

thanks
Jack

[cwboaze]

I too, would love to just get a hint of what's going to be in the newest update, and when it will be.

and to point out in your changes log, here: Changes v1.87d -> Unreleased

- fixed problem with welcome/confirm on import on some servers
- fixed bug with AUTH, caused problems re-authenticating when reconnecting on some servers
- fixed deleting backup and export files on servers where php exec() was not supported
- changed smtp_timeout default from 9s to 20s due to problems on some servers
+ improved stability of SMTP 'reset state' command by discarding late responses before issuing it
- added X-LMP-Recipient email header so bounces from some servers can be correctly processed
- added ability for unconfirmed users to remove themselves with a remove link
- changed user database searches in seq # to be exact instead of wild
- added checkboxes on user database page allowing selection of multiple users
+ added move, copy, remove and edit options for selections and 'all results'
- fixed file uploads on certain servers. path to move file to was not being detected properly
- fixed login on some servers. domain detection now uses HTTP_HOST instead of SERVER_NAME
- fixed bugs in import-from-database feature - wrong count, error when sending welcome msgs and more
- updated bounce.cgi to ignore 'warning' messages on some servers which caused removal
+ ask how to set all of bounced users back to active if you suspect this affected you


There are some big items, listed that I don't like knowing they can mess up or clitch at any wrong momment.

* improved stability of SMTP 'reset state' command by discarding late responses before issuing it (Big One To Me)
* added X-LMP-Recipient email header so bounces from some servers can be correctly processed (Would Be Really Nice To Have With Tracking Bounces)
* changed user database searches in seq # to be exact instead of wild (Would Be Nice)
* added checkboxes on user database page allowing selection of multiple users (Good GOD, Yes, on This One)
* added move, copy, remove and edit options for selections and 'all results' (Awesome)
* fixed file uploads on certain servers. path to move file to was not being detected properly (Important)
* fixed login on some servers. domain detection now uses HTTP_HOST instead of SERVER_NAME (Important, Because it changes how u run)
* fixed bugs in import-from-database feature - wrong count, error when sending welcome msgs and more (WOW, needed)

These listed changes, get me nervous when reading them, would love to see a small update release atleast.

Thanks, In Advance!
Chris B.

[DW]

I am at work on the update and all of these issues will be addressed.

Regards

[AlanT]

Hi Dean,

It's great to hear that you're working on the project, however, the point of this thread was to establish whether you can commit to a DEFINITE DATE?

The reason is simple.  You've said many times over the years that you've been "working on" LMP, with few results to show for it.

Once more, I want to emphasize that I'm not degrading the work you've put into LMP.  You've created a great product.  The only 'problem' is that LMP is starting to show it's age and could use an upgrade.

As mentioned above, we're not opposed to the idea of an upgrade fee.  I know this may be difficult to implement considering that you offered 'lifetime' upgrades to many of your customers.  

Here's a possible option.  What if you created a 'core' LMP product, and separate, optional modules for special features.  You could still give away upgrades to LMP, but charge for the optional modules.  For instance, you could package the WYSIWYG feature into an optional module.  Or the RSS feature could be packaged as an optional module.  These modules could be licensed for $25 per installation.

With this approach, the work to release a core LMP product can be minimized, and modules can be released as they are created, giving you a steadily increasing cash flow.

Considering how you've already implemented several hooks for extra processing scripts, the module concept shouldn't be too hard to implement.

[DW]

There is a lot to do and I am hoping to avoid many of the legacy mistakes that have prevented ongoing development.  As far as specific extra features go there is a very long list and I cannot consider them all.  At this stage I would like to perfect the base first, implementing useful things where I can (as I do), and worry about those (shortly) after.  

That's not to say I haven't been working out how the feature you mentioned would be implemented in the back of my mind from time to time.

I know I deserve a certain amount of backlash from the suspense and frustration I have caused.  I don't have time to take comments personally.  In fact, I barely had time to read your post...  There is a lot of support that needs to be done so I can continue work on moving forward.  It is underway, again, and I'm sorry but I do not have a definite date.  All I can say is it will be well worth the money. (Free!)

Take care

[hilco]

outsource support, manage your time, that's what comes to mind reading your reply

[john193]

Hey Dean,

Ok. I've seen your posts and I seem to see a bad cyclical pattern here. I've seen it before in software development and it goes something like this. Ok. I want to add this, this and this.... and meanwhile in the midst of adding this and this, geez wiz let's add this and that.  And what typically happens and it sounds like you've fallen for this AGE OLD PROBLEM is you NEVER EVER GET A NEW VERSION OUT BECAUSE YOU GOT TOO MANY IRONS IN THE FIRE.

Dean have you ever heard of AGILE development. Might help you a ton. It kinda goes like this... V1.88 will have these 3 new features.  Make that milestone - BACK THAT CODE UP AND release it. Next Milestone. Ok. All the "ugh code back in 2000 needs to be rewritten THIS WAY" - GREAT... do just that. NOW TEST IT. Did you break anything. NO ? GREAT .. this is V1.89 -- RELEASE and the cycle repeats.  Meanwhile every step of the way you have  STABLE PRODUCT.  From your posts it's obvious from a developer's standpoint you've got a monster on your hand and NOTHING really work -- just kinda works.

Here's just a few suggestions Dean -- take it or leave it from someone whose been in the software development arena for over 20+ years...

1st Call WorkersForHire ---it's Michel Fortin's wife company and outsource your support --- it can't be that bad and they are cheap but good at what they do. That frees up your time for DEVELOPMENT.

2nd GO BACK TO 1.87D and come up with a plan for say 1.90 and map out exactly what features your can add to 1.90 in say 2 months of development with REITERATIVE TESTING and feel it is solid. That's your first benchmark.  Repeat the process for each successive release always going forward from a stable base and running UNIT tests to ensure you haven't broken anything along the way.

If you won't do that simple process then I know what will happen. You will NEVER FINISH the next release --- or if you do it will be so far gone
that all your customers will have gone with the next bigger faster script which came out year before -- all because you tried for perfection. It's
the perfection in you that's killing the release -- I know... It's engrained in most programmers.

Hope you take this to heart and make a change in how you do software development -- Sam Stephens of DLGuard is a great example to follow if
you need a live example of what I'm talking about.  

Remember, Microsoft the BILLION DOLLAR company didn't get there overnight -- it was a progression. At first their software SUCKED (still does in someways) but over time they releases IMPROVEMENTS and went from Windows 3.0 to 3.1 which was huge then Windows 95 (nice gui - but sucked otherwise), Windows 98 (better) and then Windows 2000 (finally a real OS - SOLID TOO) then Windows XP (actually I like 2000 more) and take a look at the recent VISTA which took what 6 years !!! They tried to put every thing know to man but I gotta tell ya --- IT'S BUGGY AS HELL and most folks if they are smart won't touch it until may the 3rd revision of that monstrocity. My point is KILL the CODE PERFECTION and go for functional and gradual improvement your customers will love you for it.

Christopher

[getresults]

I know I deserve a certain amount of backlash from the suspense and frustration I have caused.  I don't have time to take comments personally.  In fact, I barely had time to read your post...  There is a lot of support that needs to be done so I can continue work on moving forward.  It is underway, again, and I'm sorry but I do not have a definite date.  All I can say is it will be well worth the money. (Free!)

Take care

Hi Dean,

It seems to me that there are a couple of problems with what you've written here.

(1) It looks like you're assuming that everyone wants updates for free and will be willing to wait 1.5-2 years for a new, free update.

In fact, I'm guessing that there are probably a bunch of people in this forum that would happily pay an extra amount to get a new version released very quickly.

There's 1881 members in this forum.  If just 100 of us were willing to put $100 to help speed up development, that would be $10,000 you could use to work full time on this for 2-3 months, or to out-source some of the development.

I know I'd be willing to throw $100 or more in to get an improved version with new features.  

In fact some users here may be willing to put in a LOT more if their businesses are centrally based on the use of LMP.  Personally in the last 12 months I've donated around $4000 into various projects to help get updates or new features added.

Many times the need to receive improvements and updates FAST far outweighs the value of free updates.  Users will be VERY happy to pay extra for a guaranteed feature list / release date.

Please don't fall into the trap of assuming we're only  happy to settle for free updates.

(2) It sounds like you're in the FREE support trap and that is sucking up a lot of valuable time that you could be developing.

As someone suggested - you need to outsource as much of this as possible.

Why not set up an optional paid support service that charges a reasonable fee - say $10 per request - for a fast support response.  Then all you need to do is find 1-2 people in this forum who have the technical / programming ability to answer questions and you let them keep the $10 from every request they answer.

That way users wanting a fast response and willing to pay for it can get help without taking you away from development and a few other forum members are getting paid to help you.

Everyone wins.

It's just SOOO frustrating as customer having to wait month after month after month for the slightest hint that a new update may be available sometime soon.

I really hope you'll consider the ideas I've suggested and listen to the other customers in this forum who will gladly help you in return for an updated version within a definite timeframe.

[AlanT]

I think it has become abundantly clear that Dean is not willing to commit to a definite date and that his typical pattern of ambition planning with few actual results will continue for some time to come.

It may be time to invest another $200 with another piece of software that has a more reasonable development cycle.

Sorry Dean.  I've hung in with you as much as I could.  I REALLY need to be able to give my subscribers the ability to update their own information.  This one feature ALONE is worth the $200 to me.

[getresults]

I think it has become abundantly clear that Dean is not willing to commit to a definite date and that his typical pattern of ambition planning with few actual results will continue for some time to come.

It may be time to invest another $200 with another piece of software that has a more reasonable development cycle.

Sorry Dean.  I've hung in with you as much as I could.  I REALLY need to be able to give my subscribers the ability to update their own information.  This one feature ALONE is worth the $200 to me.

You've made my point exactly Alan.

You're willing to put in at least $200.  

I've just set up some new sites that are now using Aweber instead of LMP (which I would much prefer) because features such as subscribers not being able to update their own information are missing.  

These sites are turning over hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales and I would happily reinvest some of that profit into LMP.  

Instead I'm stuck in the position that I really love LMP but I'm constantly looking around for another solution that gets updated more frequently, even if it costs 5-10 times more to buy...