ListMailPRO Email Marketing Software Forums
ListMailPRO Email Marketing Software Forums => Email Web Hosting => Topic started by: DW on February 10, 2007, 07:44:51 pm
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This post is severely outdated and many of these hosts are no longer recommended. Please visit our new page on email hosting (http://listmailpro.com/email-hosting) for our most recent reviews of web hosts and providers.
This post is meant to become a frequently updated list of web hosts that are reasonably supportive of opt-in email. We also note hosts that are not recommended due to confirmation of restrictive policies. Please reply to this thread or start a new post with your experience to have it added. This list is maintained and sponsored by ListMailPRO.
Domain Names
You need a domain name and a web host to set up your site and run ListMailPRO. Here we list some domain name providers that are fairly priced and full featured.
Namecheap (http://namecheap.com) - Highly recommended. Under $10/yr with full DNS services and a very fast control panel great for handling hundreds of domains.
1&1 Domains (http://listmailpro.com/1and1) - $8/yr with free optional private registration and full DNS services, although their control panel is quite slow.
GoDaddy (http://godaddy.com) - Not recommended for domain registration due to policing the content of your domain (!). See this blog entry (http://dwtips.com/2007/12/20/godaddy-using-extortion-tactics-on-email-marketers/) of the experience of one of my clients! IMHO policing content should be a host's job, not a registrar's and one shouldn't be forced to pay to continue using their services in case of a suspected violation.
Shared Hosts
Shared hosts are the most common form of hosting. Costing around $10-$25 per month you share a server with other users. A single server might host 10 or even 100 or more web sites. For this reason, "bigger" shared hosts are not always better - in fact, they are more often restrictive. It is most important, of course, to find a host that is capable of keeping the server running and maintaining deliverability of your email. Should you find a host not recommended below please post your experience!
#1 ThirdSphere (http://listmailpro.com/3s) - I talked to technical support and they said they recommend ListMailPRO due to it's efficiency. They allow up to 20,000 emails per day. They also have an advanced email cluster service (http://thirdsphere.com/cluster/listmailpro/index.php?id=3133731337) that claims to achieve very high deliverability. Thirdsphere is known to have a high tolerance for (inevitable) complaints against your messages, however they are also on the lookout for obvious spam, so be sure to send professional email. *Important* Their email policies can be found here (http://www.thirdsphere.com/plus/optin.php)
#2 Host4Profit (http://listmailpro.com/h4p) - I talked to David Hasbrouck and he agreed I could suggest 10,000 emails per day, but I have a feeling they would allow more for real professionals.
1&1 Shared Hosting (http://listmailpro.com/1and1) - We have had mixed reports regarding 1&1 and are unsure of their email policies. If you know more please let us know! Update: Apparent inability to connect to SMTP server via web server limiting ListMail to slower and more unreliable "internal PHP mail" only.
**Sign up as our referral at ThirdSphere (http://listmailpro.com/3s), Host4Profit (http://listmailpro.com/h4p) or DreamHost (http://listmailpro.com/dreamhost) (Note: 100/hr limit) and contact us (http://contact.listmailpro.com) for a free installation! ($50 value)
Dedicated Servers
Dedicated servers are a sure way to keep an eye on your email delivery right down to the system level. You can achieve upwards of 150,000+ messages per day from a properly-configured dedicated server (AND proper 100% opt-in list). We configure Plesk (http://plesk.com)-based (Fedora Core/Redhat/BSD/etc) servers for $250 and monitor them for $35/mo. (Note: Tons of extras:) ) Please contact us (http://listmailpro.com/support?t=other) if you are interested in this service. In general we recommend ordering the lowest-end processor and at least 1GB RAM.
Layered Tech (http://layeredtech.com) - Best prices we've seen in some time although at last check, unless we missed it, serial console is not provided by default although you can pay for 24-hour KVM access. Tech support responds quickly to support tickets and will test your crashed/problematic server, if necessary. Support & reboots through the ticket system.
The Planet (http://theplanet.com) - A solid company with excellent support and response time. I've had a couple servers with The Planet since 2002 and have never been disappointed in their response time or service.
NOT RECOMMENDED
These (shared, usually) web hosts are not recommended for ListMailPRO. If you are hosting on one of these sites and want to run ListMailPRO I would bring it to the attention of the host, requesting an increase in their limits for responsible publishers. Failing that, you would be advised to migrate to a host with a fair email policy.
DreamHost (http://listmailpro.com/dreamhost) - Originally DreamHost allowed upwards of 5000 messages per day. Some of our users, however, have found other limits (http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?topic=1728.0), such as a 100/hour maximum and performance issues. Due to this we can no longer recommend DreamHost.
HostGator (http://hostgator.com) - Not recommended due to restrictive policy (http://www.hostgator.com/mailpolicy.shtml). Cannot set up bounce.cgi or signup-X.cgi scripts due to wget restriction (wget requirement may disappear in future ListMail versions). [Contact (http://hostgator.com/contact.shtml)]
GoDaddy (http://godaddy.com) - Not recommended due to restrictive policy. Maximum of 200 emails per account per day. [Contact (https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/support_ask_question.asp?ci=1185)]
1&1 Root Servers (http://listmailpro.com/1and1) - Good price, excellent control panel with remote reboot, serial console, free backup space via FTP, re-imaging, rescue boot and more... is tempting, but human tech support lacks greatly with telephone (to a call-center in India, I think?) being the quickest. One major disadvantage is the inability to upgrade server hardware in case you outgrow your original purchase. *** I recently had a nightmare with 1&1 not replacing failed hardware for upwards of 4 days (On top of the fact that the department is not 24 hr) and had to move a number of clients to a new server. I therefore no longer recommend 1&1 servers ***
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Thanks for letting us know about GoDaddy. They were my backup if everything falls apart with my current host.
I have a virtual private server (VPS) with Apollo Hosting and I have been with them for about seven years. Their tech support via online chat is okay - but it goes in spurts - sometimes you get them, sometimes you do not.
The last two e-mails I sent out (only to lists of 1,200 or so) had some issues where it would stop, but I was able to resume. Still not sure what the issue is there.
I have to use the bounce e-mail address to handle all of the bounced e-mails instead of bounce.cgi which is the preferred method. I could not get bounce.cgi to configure properly and since my lists are smaller, it is working out okay.
I'm pretty much committed to Apollo unless something really goes wrong. I would suggest them to others, but would like to know about why the last two e-mails I sent got "stuck." If I was to manage additional sites for customers, they would be placed on my VPS - I would not manage elsewhere.
Steve
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HostGator - Not recommended due to restrictive policy.
Whew. I went BACK to Hostgator, which was a very good overall, non-pricey hosting, a year ago. I've spent about 10 mos. at another host, because I was doing some high level Flash work for a very well known Internet Marketer (Turbo ring any bells? Check out http://www.thedelaveriancode.com/ and tiny sample of my work (total 22 Flash modules, yikes): http://www.thedelaveriancode.com/puzzle/). I hosted with him for most of 2006.
Anyway, TWO WEEKS IN HELL with Hostgator as of tonight. This host has gone horribly southward, to off the map. Service is terrible but "chummy" in their chat, etc. So those whoe are new to this will get sucked in. Don't believe any of the hype.
Email is limited to 200 per hour, and they will not help with any of the issues. Don't bother asking to upgrade to a more reasonable 500 or whatever.
I am moving at LEAST my domain with LMP on it... thanks Dean, I will mail you.
For financial reasons, I am leaving things at HG for a bit. My 80 domains make it severely hard, and at least a week of work, to move them. Sigh.
But I need this list up and running NOW if not last week. :shock:
Leanne
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My 80 domains make it severely hard, and at least a week of work, to move them. Sigh.
Heck, I dread moving six or seven, can't even imaging moving 80...
Steve
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My 80 domains make it severely hard, and at least a week of work, to move them. Sigh.
Heck, I dread moving six or seven, can't even imaging moving 80...
LOL! Well, I've gotten pretty good at this, at least with hosting with Cpanel. Those tools for backing up and reloading are truly very good. And me, the non-techie that everyone thinks I am SO techie... my main skill is absolute research, and Google is on a par with Einstein. SO. I went lookin' awhile back on the ins and outs of restoring dbases with PHPmyAdmin (I have an inate ability with things like PHP and Javascript, and ONE whole course at Masters level in mySQL but I am NOT a programmer). Because of my stint with major Mr. Marketer and his hosting's ANCIENT mySQL scripts. Even my LMP didn't work right because there were issues in their scripts.
The funny/not even funny part was that here they offered all the usual Fantastico stuff, and then you install only to find out that the ancient mySQL scripts wouldn't even allow you to run the thing.
So I put in the exact error in Google and came to forums that allowed me to recode some of that, and 3 of the 5 nonworking dbases then ran okay. The other two, all forums I found outright stated there was no workaround other than to update the mySQL scripts to the latest version.
However.... for this total time, I could NOT export my lists from LMP!!! Not a bit. Came up with mySQL errors all over. The INSTANT I moved from MajorMarketer.net hosting (name changed to protect the idiots) and over to oh yuk, another move coming up... Hostgator.... then all of a sudden I could export my lists again. Most of the rest of it, including Dailymail, ran fine.
What is needed in this industry... Remember the 'clickers' in the original Star Trek, I call them BeamMeUp'ers. As in Beam Me Up Scotty? Okay... visualize one of those scenes and TELL me if there are more than half a dozen buttons on those hummers?
BeamMeUp tech and disintegrating the human or other fleshly form has GOT to be more technical than moving hosts.
We need a clicker with 6 buttons MAX, and the operation must be in the realm of SECONDS as is the BeamMeUp technology.
Off box.
Leanne
:!:
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Are there any good hosts out there for listmailpro that use cpanel and fantastico?
I can't believe how many hosts think it's a good thing that they have their own proprietary control panel- the last thing I want to do is learn a new interface and only find out later that it's limited in some way.
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Hi,
the last thing I want to do is learn a new interface and only find out later that it's limited in some way
Just curious, have you tried any with Fantastico/cPanel, and if so which ones and what did you find 'limited' about them?
I don't know of any myself that allow large email lists, they're probably getting harder to find... DW might know...
Good luck, let us know if you find one.
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ThirdSphere uses cPanel and Host4Profit has their own full-featured panel. Regretfully I don't know of any other hosts that are as supportive of opt-in email lists.
Regards
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Quote:
the last thing I want to do is learn a new interface and only find out later that it's limited in some way
Just curious, have you tried any with Fantastico/cPanel, and if so which ones and what did you find 'limited' about them?
Sorry I should have been more clear- I was looking for cpanel/fantastico and didn't want another solution that would be limited- my experience with control panels besides cpanel/fantastico has been bad.
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CLOOK http://www.clook.co.uk offer the cpanel with fantastico. I have to say that although they have no phone support that I know of, email support is always quick and efficient. Their servers are also very fast and because they are very strict with their clients it is always smooth and fast. The reseller accounts can be paid monthly too. I transfered over 100 Client's domains from Pipex (Webfusion) to Clook without problems and have saved myself an amazing amount of technical fiddling time as the Pipex System was awful and with almost no useful tech support. Clooks Anti Spam system work too whereas Pipex were delivering over 2000 spam emails to me a day!!
Good luck
John
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Hello,
I am actually a really satisfied customer at HostGator. I have read and am now trying to live with the mailing limitations of HostGator. I have over 180 domains. I have used hosts all over the internet and trust me, HostGator is a fabulous service at an excellent price. They have more stable performance from the same limitations we are talking about.
I do understand this is a forum all about mail. But, if I can't get my lists throttled withing HostGators limits, I will get a single account somewhere else, maybe generic domain just for ListMail Pro.
HostGator is a great service to have my sites on. I would submit to you that their recipe (limitations) may not be good for LMP use, but for everything else you need a site to do, great. I will not be moving my sites. This is the best service on the internet IMO, been there about 18 months. I have 5 packages each on different servers with about 30+ domains on each. This is a very, very good host. It is owner operated and I've had great service and performance at HostGator.
Since it's limited to 200 emails/hr, I'm going to try 195 emails every 65 minutes and see how well LMP can perform.
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Hi,
I agree, I also use HostGator, but not for my LMP.
Since it's limited to 200 emails/hr, I'm going to try 195 emails every 65 minutes and see how well LMP can perform.
It would be impossible for me to make those restrictions, I email 60,000 people a day sometimes.
I hope it works for you, sure if you have a couple of thousand that's fine, but you can't do it with large lists.
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DreamHost was mentioned as a suggested hosting site, but they have been horrible. First you have to beg them to increase your email limit, which is capped at 500 emails per hour (so much for sending a blast email to a 1000-person subscriber base, unless you want to customize your settings). The worst part--my site has gone down countless times because they have too many people sharing sharing the same server.
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Sorry to hear about your experience, Jake. I will consider updating my recommendation to note the limits you experienced.
Regards
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That's horrible news- I am just about finished moving our site from godaddy to dreamhost, the whole point of which is to get LMP on the same ip address as our .com so that we can hopefully get more deliverability to hotmail and aol.
I'll contact dreamhost and see if they'll work with us on this.
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Here's what they wrote me about their policies- we can't use it because we don't do an opt-in confirmation because we've found that people want the email but can't be bothered to or can't always figure out how to just click on a link to confirm their subscription- they may not expect the confirmation requirement and then get mad they didn't receive their email.
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We have initiated an anti spam trap of 100 emails per hour via SMTP and
200 emails per hour via SSH/script due to high levels of spam and
phishing coming from our servers.
If you plan to use this account for bulk email purposes (500/hr max), we
will first need to ascertain that your usage is consistent with our
anti- spam policy, which you can review here:
http://www.dreamhost.com/spam.html
The most important aspects of this policy, which we would like you to
address, are:
1. Whether or not you have used an opt-in confirmation process (not to
be confused with regular 'opt-in') for all of your your list's
subscribers. This is a process wherein each person who signs up for your
list is sent an email after subscribing with a tagged link in it that
they must click on before being added to the list. Those who do not
click on the link are not added, and receive no further bulk email.
2. Whether you log each confirmation with the date/time and IP address
associated with that confirmation.
3. Where we may go to independently review your opt-in confirmation
logging data.
Also, we would like to know where we may sign up for your mailing list
in order to test out its opt-in confirmation functionality.
If your bulk email usage is not in compliance with these policies, we
must ask that you cease any bulk email activity immediately until you
have become compliant. The highest limit we grant is 500/hr . If you need
to send more then that, you will need to throttle the sending. The
easiest way to do that is to use our Announcement List feature, which
you can access here:
https://panel.dreamhost.com/index.cgi?tree=mail.list
The Announcement List feature handles the opt-in confirmation and
logging aspects of the policy for you, so that you don't have to. There
is no limit/hr when using the Announcement List.
Thanks!
Glen
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What's the best way (currently) to go for one looking to send up to 500,000 e-mails per day?
LayeredTech.com was given as an option. Is that still recommended? Does anyone here have experience with them?
Thanks :)
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Hi DW,
I'd like to get set up on a dedicated server ASAP. I have 12.5 MM fresh, surveyed leads I'd like to start working with. I'd like you to configure it, please.
I sent inquiries through the contact form you suggested in this thread on two occasions, but haven't heard back from anyone yet.
If possible, please call me to avoid tons of back-and-forth e-mails and posts, as I have quite a few questions, such as what is included in the $250 config and $35/month monitoring you mention.
Also wondering if LayeredTech.com is the best for a particular reason or if someone like ValueWeb.com, who I've had positive experience with in the past would be okay.
Thanks,
Peter
201-424-8653
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Hi Peter,
I fear the volume you intend to send is beyond ListMail and a standard dedicated server's capabilities. I cannot recommend emailing more than about 100k-150k per day per dedicated server. With a list as large as yours you will almost certainly receive a ton of complaints which can cause any service provider to discontinue your server. Even with a list of 150k+, if the list is not 100% double opt-in from your web site, or all buyers of your products, complaints can be crippling.
List-washing (http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4473#ListWashing), where you email the entire list hoping to figure out who wants your email, is not recommended as it is a common tactic used by spammers. Soliciting confirmations without the user having signed up at your site is also not recommended.
If you bought your list there is the possibility of spam trap (http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4473#Strap) which is very bad for the server's reputation and can get you banned even more quickly. I apologize if I am being presumptuous but 99.9% of the time such large lists are a warning sign of an extremely low-quality and difficult-to-email list. If this is 100% legitimate company email I must recommend a ListMail competitor because I cannot support such volume at this time. (I would think it would take a small cluster of dedicated servers)
Regards
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Hi Peter,
I fear the volume you intend to send is beyond ListMail and a standard dedicated server's capabilities. I cannot recommend emailing more than about 100k-150k per day per dedicated server. With a list as large as yours you will almost certainly receive a ton of complaints which can cause any service provider to discontinue your server. Even with a list of 150k+, if the list is not 100% double opt-in from your web site, or all buyers of your products, complaints can be crippling.
List-washing (http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4473#ListWashing), where you email the entire list hoping to figure out who wants your email, is not recommended as it is a common tactic used by spammers. Soliciting confirmations without the user having signed up at your site is also not recommended.
If you bought your list there is the possibility of spam trap (http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4473#Strap) which is very bad for the server's reputation and can get you banned even more quickly. I apologize if I am being presumptuous but 99.9% of the time such large lists are a warning sign of an extremely low-quality and difficult-to-email list. If this is 100% legitimate company email I must recommend a ListMail competitor because I cannot support such volume at this time. (I would think it would take a small cluster of dedicated servers)
Regards
Hi Dean,
I was going by what you said in your post here:
Dedicated Servers
"Dedicated servers are a sure way to keep an eye on your email delivery right down to the system level. You can achieve upwards of 500,000 messages per day from a properly-configured dedicated server (and proper 100% opt-in list). We configure Plesk-based (Fedora Core/Redhat/BSD/etc) servers for $250 and monitor them for $35/mo. (Note: Tons of extras:) ) Please contact us if you are interested in this service."
I'd go with whatever you felt was the maximum number of e-mails I could send without causing issues for the server.
These are legitimate leads, many from a friend who has been in the business of providing solid leads to the MLM industry for over 26 years, so they are good, legitimate double opt-ins. Some are surveyed leads.
If you can help me, that would be great.
Thanks,
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I am a little exhausted from trying to get such large lists delivered. Your list size means you need to contact Yahoo and, if they accept you for review, wait until they evaluate you (I've heard 10-14 days), before being able to be able to achieve maximum throughput.
Some reference on the subject:
http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?topic=1579.0
http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?topic=1903.0
http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?topic=721.0
I can set up your server and recommend sending ~100k/day until such a review takes place.
Regards
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Thanks, Dean. That sounds perfect.
I'll review those links and get back to you soon.
Kind regards,
Peter
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The following post detailing Postfix optimizations was split from this post:
http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?topic=1966.0
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Hi Dean,
Tara is who I got the majority of my leads from.
But, God help me, in figuring out how to apply these patches and "hacks"!
That's why I need your help :)
So... beyond applying to get whitelisted by Yahoo!, how can I get started with you, pay you, etc?
I obviously need to get the dedicated server set up first, so a few quick questions:
1. You suggested LayeredTech dedicated servers in a previous post. Are the servers at www.LayeredTech.com better than www.ValueWeb.com, in your opinion, or vice versa, or it doesn't matter? I have worked with ValueWeb in the past and had a good experience.
2. Also, you mentioned in another post that LayeredTech had some kind of a limitation. Does ValueWeb appear to have the same limitation or no?
3. Which specific server package/configuration would you recommend?
Thanks a million!
Peter
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Hi Dean,
I hope you can respond to my last post here so I know how to proceed.
If you don't have time to get me set up, just let me know so I know to request help elsewhere. I hope you can help me, though.
Thank you :)
Peter
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DO NOT USE TO HOST LISTMAIL
We did, and it took all day to send 10,000 emails with me constantly watching it and re-starting. Turns out they have a very low limit - maybe as low as 100 per hour.
Host the domains and websites with them by all means, but I chatted up Dean and pay him for hosting ListMail, and it has worked with just one click pretty much ever since!
Steve
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DO NOT USE TO HOST LISTMAIL
We did, and it took all day to send 10,000 emails with me constantly watching it and re-starting. Turns out they have a very low limit - maybe as low as 100 per hour.
Host the domains and websites with them by all means, but I chatted up Dean and pay him for hosting ListMail, and it has worked with just one click pretty much ever since!
Steve
Dean?
Can you let me know next steps, which server I should use, etc, so I can pay you and proceed with this?
Regards,
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I apologize for the delay. I unfortunately am just learning about the methods Tara has applied to email such a large list. I also do not know which common hosting software offers Postfix which she uses. (cPanel uses Exim, Plesk qmail) Server setup on a server without a control panel with unfamiliar software would be far more involved, and I wouldn't be able to guarantee anything... I would not be able to guarantee it to be easy to add email, FTP accounts, DNS changes, etc. I would have to charge $300-$350 as it would likely take several days to get everything right. Being that she is already familiar with a server configured with Postfix with high volumes of email, I wonder if Tara might be interested in taking this job on? :D
As for a server company I have heard many good things about Layered. You may want to Google for "layeredtech banned for spam" and other queries to see how lenient they are with complaints. It's also worth checking their knowledgebase/FAQ for their official server email policy, or even contacting a member of their sales team detailing your requirements.
Regards
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Hi Dean,
Great suggestions.
Thank you!
Peter
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Hello everyone,
I just thought I would let you all know who I am hosting with. Knownhost.com.
I have been amazed at the performance of the VPS. Multiple offerings. Multiple control panel offerings. Upgradeable. Great service.
And believe it or not the list goes on even further than that.
Check out thier forums and what WHT has to say about them.
Good luck!
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Does anyone have experiences with IXwebhosting? I have been using them for 4 years with no problems then all of a sudden emails have been stuck in a queue for several hours and up to a day. They continue to say that there have been problems due to an increased load on the server but that it is now fixed but still problems.
I was looking at a service such as www.authsmtp.com to send my email. Any thoughts? Thanks
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If performance problems are a new development it might be worthwhile to raise the issue with your host. They may be able to optimize the server or identify a major block against the server. Some tips for optimizing various mail software can be found here:
http://listmailpro.com/forum/index.php?board=8
ListMail currently can't use an external mail server for all of it's email. Confirmation, welcome and some notification emails are always sent with internal PHP mail, which means from the web server. A system configuration change would be required for PHP mail to use an external server.
Regards
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thanks for the info regarding the external server Dean ..
I have brought it up with the host on several occasions and they just keep telling me that there have been problems but it will be fixed soon.. that was a month ago so looking for a new host now.
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Any suggestions for email hosting for LMP?
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Hey Dean
It's been a while since I've been around but I'm looking at setting up the mail server again. I want you to set it up on a server you recommend and I want to be able to mail maybe 150k a day. Come back tome as soon as you are able and let me know what your offerings and recommendations are.
Regards
Kevin
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Hi Kevin, I currently recommend [removed at their request] for servers. Their lowest-end CPU and 1GB ram should be great. If you don't need to host a lot of domains or email accounts I could configure a bare-bones server with no control panel. If you would like a control panel I recommend Plesk or cPanel.
I can do a setup of the server and ListMail for $150 and do ongoing management and monitoring for $25/mo.
Regards
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Hi Dean
Sounds ok - cpanel is what I'm used to and I'd prefer something I can work with. How long will it take you to get the job done after you get a go ahead?
Kevin
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Hi Kevin, I try to start well within 24 hours of receiving payment. Regards, DW
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A web hosting service is a type of Internet hosting service that allows individuals and organizations to make their own website accessible via the World Wide Web. Web hosts are companies that provide space on a server they own or lease for use by their clients as well as providing Internet connectivity, typically in a data center. Web hosts can also provide data center space and connectivity to the Internet for servers they do not own to be located in their data center, called colocation.
email management software should help bring your advertising into the current century and make you a force to be reckoned with on the Internet.
email management software (http://www.massmailingnews.com/)
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Been a while since I visited this forum, brings back old memories...
I figured I'd post and let anyone who was interested know that I was now offering email friendly web hosting...
No spam allowed of course, very strict on that... It also comes with a bit newer autoresponder than Listmail but you should also be able(?) to use listmail if you wanted...
Here's my shameless plug for it:
http://www.extremeleadprogram.com/extreme-autoresponder-realtime-web-host (http://www.extremeleadprogram.com/extreme-autoresponder-realtime-web-host)